LOL. I'm going for Polite Moderator of The Year, actually. :-)
Seriously though : why was there any expectation of credit when exactly the reverse was advertised. Someone somewhere else say something? Wishful thinking?
Cheers, Mike.
"I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal
I read in another forum that this was a public project going on here at Albert@home. I guess the roumour spread rapidly since alot of Einstein@home and boinc people want to see an OpenCl app that works and that thoose people are willing to make almost anything to crunch a few tasks for even the smallest amount of credits to help you out in anyway they can.
I hope that you will make this a public einstein beta test(albert@home) so that all the people that can and are willing to contribute with alot of different computor variations and maybe feedback if you need it.
Alot of boinc volounteers help out for a small amount of credit.
Maybe I am just talking rubbish?
Quote:
Albert@Home stats are currently being exported, I intend to shut this down late this week. There will be a news item (including RSS) at least 24h in advance.
But I still like to understand what happened here, how & why people that are only interested in credit ever attached a host to this project. This project was never meant to attract this kind of attention. I'd like to avoid such misunderstanding in the future.
I read in another forum that this was a public project going on here at Albert@home. I guess the roumour spread rapidly since alot of Einstein@home and boinc people want to see an OpenCl app that works .... Maybe I am just talking rubbish?
That makes alot of sense.
Bernd : perhaps we've been subject to the rumour mill. That would explain a lot.
Cheers, Mike.
"I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal
Seriously though : why was there any expectation of credit when exactly the reverse was advertised.
Stats were being exported. That set the expectation that they would continue to be exported, unless or until there was an announcement of a change in policy. Simple as that.
What non-sequitirs? Can you please be specific? You asked questions, so I thought I was being polite by answering.
LOL. I'm going for Polite Moderator of The Year, actually. :-)
Seriously though : why was there any expectation of credit when exactly the reverse was advertised. Someone somewhere else say something? Wishful thinking?
Cheers, Mike.
Below is what it say's on the Front Page, nowhere does it say not to join the Project, in fact it say you are welcome to join to test features or fixes.
It does say if you care about Credits then this project is certainly not the right one for you. That's fine & I'm sure if we're helping then we don't really care about the Credits but as in all other Previous Test Projects before this one the Participants were rewarded with some sort of Credit however small it was.
Most of us know things go bad in a Test Project but we're willing to put up with it for that little bit of Reward so that's where some of the Expectations came in probably ... IMHO
Quote:
Albert@Home is a test project ran by the Einstein@Home team. You are welcome to join if you want to help us test features or fixes that may later be transferred to Einstein@Home. However please keep in mind that this is a test project:
Most of the time Albert@Home will have no work to run at all, and when it has, the applcations are experimental, might be unstable, unreliable and may even damage your computer. Validation might be unreliable and we may cancel workunits without prior notice. If you care about credit, this project is certainly not the right one for you. For short:
Don't expect ANYTHING to work here.
But I still like to understand what happened here, how & why people that are only interested in credit ever attached a host to this project.
It's not either/or. At least not for me. I am here for *both* helping develop the project *and* getting credits for whatever happens to validate properly. Frankly, I am very interesting in getting the ATI app working properly.
Nothing you've said has flowed from what we've publicly announced, so I guess that pretty well encompasses all that you've said here .... which is why we're asking about the setting of expectations.
Cheers, Mike.
"I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal
But I still like to understand what happened here, how & why people that are only interested in credit ever attached a host to this project. This project was never meant to attract this kind of attention. I'd like to avoid such misunderstanding in the future.
As I said earlier "The hardcore milestone collectors will crunch *any* project that's available to them".
It's not just this project, there's loads of projects out there not listed on stats sites that I/we are attached to. The difference is that at some stage you exported stats. Once that happened, the cat was out of the bag :) Don't know why you started exporting them - Maybe the feature got turned on during a server upgrade or something.
As for finding out about projects, you'll find putting a key phrase from the default text on the front page of your or pretty much any project in Google will find loads of BOINC projects that aren't listed. Also, word of mouth is very important among crunchers. Another source of info is from the WUProp project. That will list all projects that have been run and had stats gathered by it.
FWIW, my view is that stats are exported they are free to be used by anyone. Doesn't take much effort to look in the stats directory and see if there are any up to date tables in there; If there are, use them :) I know some people (OK, 1 person) who disagrees, but it takes all sorts ;)
How to avoid it happening in the future? Make the project invitation code only. Although I think BWT's get invite codes by deafult? Also, don't ever export stats. MOPAC seems to have kept user interest minimal by never exporting stats.
Oh, and thank for starting up the stats export again - Much appreciated!
Albert@Home stats are currently being exported, I intend to shut this down late this week. There will be a news item (including RSS) at least 24h in advance.
No. You've received the inevitable answer given the plainly stated context here, and you're upset because I stated the obvious that you evidently haven't picked up on yet.
...
You fail to realize an important fact. BOINC crunchers have valid expectations of new projects.
BOINC was setup to draw volunteers to donate time and money to interesting scientific projects, in exchange for nothing more than the fun of collecting credits. That is the unwritten contract between projects and crunchers. Projects "promise" to do interesting non-commercial (mostly) science and behave fairly in giving fair credit, and crunchers "promise" to donate time on their HW and help the project developers with feedback on the forums.
This is a "contract" that was validated by most crunchers' experience on most projects. And that was the expectation here at Albert@home as well.
Regarding your contributions here, Mike, there is nothing polite in them, not your tone, and not the content. You have not stated the obvious, you have stated the unexpected. Yours is not even disregard, it's a plain contempt... and a blatant breach of the above mentioned "contract". Well, I just hope the projects that treat crunchers fairly remain in majority.
LOL. I'm going for Polite
)
LOL. I'm going for Polite Moderator of The Year, actually. :-)
Seriously though : why was there any expectation of credit when exactly the reverse was advertised. Someone somewhere else say something? Wishful thinking?
Cheers, Mike.
"I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal
I read in another forum that
)
I read in another forum that this was a public project going on here at Albert@home. I guess the roumour spread rapidly since alot of Einstein@home and boinc people want to see an OpenCl app that works and that thoose people are willing to make almost anything to crunch a few tasks for even the smallest amount of credits to help you out in anyway they can.
I hope that you will make this a public einstein beta test(albert@home) so that all the people that can and are willing to contribute with alot of different computor variations and maybe feedback if you need it.
Alot of boinc volounteers help out for a small amount of credit.
Maybe I am just talking rubbish?
RE: I read in another forum
)
That makes alot of sense.
Bernd : perhaps we've been subject to the rumour mill. That would explain a lot.
Cheers, Mike.
"I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal
RE: Seriously though : why
)
Stats were being exported. That set the expectation that they would continue to be exported, unless or until there was an announcement of a change in policy. Simple as that.
What non-sequitirs? Can you please be specific? You asked questions, so I thought I was being polite by answering.
Dublin, California
Team: SETI.USA
RE: LOL. I'm going for
)
Below is what it say's on the Front Page, nowhere does it say not to join the Project, in fact it say you are welcome to join to test features or fixes.
It does say if you care about Credits then this project is certainly not the right one for you. That's fine & I'm sure if we're helping then we don't really care about the Credits but as in all other Previous Test Projects before this one the Participants were rewarded with some sort of Credit however small it was.
Most of us know things go bad in a Test Project but we're willing to put up with it for that little bit of Reward so that's where some of the Expectations came in probably ... IMHO
STE\/E
RE: But I still like to
)
It's not either/or. At least not for me. I am here for *both* helping develop the project *and* getting credits for whatever happens to validate properly. Frankly, I am very interesting in getting the ATI app working properly.
Dublin, California
Team: SETI.USA
RE: What non-sequitirs?
)
Nothing you've said has flowed from what we've publicly announced, so I guess that pretty well encompasses all that you've said here .... which is why we're asking about the setting of expectations.
Cheers, Mike.
"I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal
RE: But I still like to
)
As I said earlier "The hardcore milestone collectors will crunch *any* project that's available to them".
It's not just this project, there's loads of projects out there not listed on stats sites that I/we are attached to. The difference is that at some stage you exported stats. Once that happened, the cat was out of the bag :) Don't know why you started exporting them - Maybe the feature got turned on during a server upgrade or something.
As for finding out about projects, you'll find putting a key phrase from the default text on the front page of your or pretty much any project in Google will find loads of BOINC projects that aren't listed. Also, word of mouth is very important among crunchers. Another source of info is from the WUProp project. That will list all projects that have been run and had stats gathered by it.
FWIW, my view is that stats are exported they are free to be used by anyone. Doesn't take much effort to look in the stats directory and see if there are any up to date tables in there; If there are, use them :) I know some people (OK, 1 person) who disagrees, but it takes all sorts ;)
How to avoid it happening in the future? Make the project invitation code only. Although I think BWT's get invite codes by deafult? Also, don't ever export stats. MOPAC seems to have kept user interest minimal by never exporting stats.
Oh, and thank for starting up the stats export again - Much appreciated!
Al.
RE: Albert@Home stats are
)
Great news! Thanks!
Dublin, California
Team: SETI.USA
RE: @ KPX : RE: Just a
)
You fail to realize an important fact. BOINC crunchers have valid expectations of new projects.
BOINC was setup to draw volunteers to donate time and money to interesting scientific projects, in exchange for nothing more than the fun of collecting credits. That is the unwritten contract between projects and crunchers. Projects "promise" to do interesting non-commercial (mostly) science and behave fairly in giving fair credit, and crunchers "promise" to donate time on their HW and help the project developers with feedback on the forums.
This is a "contract" that was validated by most crunchers' experience on most projects. And that was the expectation here at Albert@home as well.
Regarding your contributions here, Mike, there is nothing polite in them, not your tone, and not the content. You have not stated the obvious, you have stated the unexpected. Yours is not even disregard, it's a plain contempt... and a blatant breach of the above mentioned "contract". Well, I just hope the projects that treat crunchers fairly remain in majority.